Theory Musing: Can (& How Would) You Use Fansubs for an Official Anime Release?

In the before time, the long long ago, back before simulcasting existed (a.k.a. the 00s), English-speaking anime fans had two options before them if they wanted to watch a newly-debuting anime series: Hope that it eventually gets officially licensed by an anime distribution/licensing company in the region that they lived in, or download an unofficial translation made by their fellow anime fans, usually available within a day of the episode's original airing (if not even mere hours after it aired in Japan). Said fan translation would differ from the later, official translation that was made for the licensed release, and some tech-savvy anime forum posters of the time would ask a simple, seemingly logical question, & only in the most polite & reasonable of ways:

"Why don't these companies just use the fansubs, instead of making their own translations? I mean, the work was already done for them, so I'm sure it'd save them a ton of money, so they should just do that! It'd totally work!! I mean, those official translations suck anyway, and the fan translators obviously know better, in the first place! Man, those anime companies are such idiots for not doing this! I mean, I just thought of it right at this moment, so I'm obviously smarter than any of them!"

"As Seen on ANN!"

I'm reminded of this type of bizarre logic, because vintage anime streaming service RetroCrush actually did what those old anime forum "geniuses" asked, and used a fansub as their translation for an anime. Namely, the company used Johnny English Subs' fan translation for Episode 20 of Magical Idol Pastel Yumi (at least, that's the only one that lists the group's name on screen), because they had only received pre-existing English subtitles for the first 15 episodes (which is what Anime Sols had translated up to during that site's existence), and simply decided to use Johnny English Subs' translation for the remaining 10; they have since taken the entire show down until further notice. It's a bad look for RetroCrush for a variety of reasons... But were they wrong in the entire concept? For this year's Theory Musing, let's ruminate on the idea of using a fan translation for an official anime release, and the benefits, hurdles, & downright problems the concept has shown in the past.

Part the First: "Why DON'T they just use the fansubs in the first place?"
There are various reasons why this isn't normally done, but they all kind of coalesce into one main reason: The difference between translating from a script & translating by ear. When an anime is licensed, one of the materials sent to the company that paid for the license is the entire script for the show/movie/OVA/etc., so that the company can produce a translation that is completely accurate to what was written. In fact, what tends to get sent isn't your standard script, but rather a post-recording script, which features all manner of hand-written notes & changes to reflect how the actual final product reads. This is because it's always possible that the recording director might alter a line so that it flows better when spoken (after some takes with the actor), or maybe a line got removed for time, or maybe even the actor wound up ad libbing something, and the director felt it worked better. In comparison, a fan translator has nothing of the sort to work with, but rather can only go off what's being spoken; literally, all they have in terms of a "script" are any song lyrics, staff credits, & title splashes shown on screen. This can result in all sorts of mistakes, whether it's mishearing what's being spoken, translating for one word when it's supposed to be another (Japanese homophones & all), or completely failing at transliterating something in katakana. This was especially true in the days when fansubbers competed in getting new episodes out ASAP, resulting in all sorts of wild mistranslations. Today, though, most fan translators (& editors) aren't under any self-imposed deadline, and therefore can take the time to make sure something actually makes sense.

However, this mainly applies to newer anime, especially back when fansubbing was primarily done because simulcasting wasn't a thing that existed. Today, fansubbing has returned to being a much smaller community, one that focuses on older, super-niche, or skipped over productions, like what Johnny English Subs had done for Pastel Yumi. The older the anime is, the less likely it has scripts that have remained in quality condition, with Anime Midstream admitting that the Matchless Raijin-Oh scripts they made their officially licensed translation off of were "a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy". At that point, a translator might actually be working just as much by ear as they would off of a script, so you can see the merit in potentially using a previously existing fansub for an official release, even if only as a base to work off of; as some have pointed out, Johnny English Subs works from another language's translation. Still, considering that Pastel Yumi aired back in 1986, making it five years older than Raijin-Oh, it's possible that whatever scripts Studio Pierrot can give to RetroCrush might be in even worse shape, and in that case there is some sense in looking at what fans have done going solely by ear. Likewise, a company like Discotek Media has done plenty of vintage anime that had never been officially released in English before, and for all we know the translators it has hired might have had to go off of ear themselves in some situations, depending on what materials they were given.

So, depending on the situation, we can see that the concept of using a fansub for an official anime release might seem enticing, which leads us to the next question...

Part the Second: "When has this happened in the past?"
In terms of anime, almost never... But I stress the "almost". It was revealed in 2011 that FUNimation used to occasionally use fansubs to help with the dubbing process if official materials were arriving late, but the company has never used fan translations outright in their releases; Odex had done similar for some Singoporean dubs. As for literally using actual fansubs, there's AN Entertainment's release of Omishi Magical Theater: Risky/Safety crediting fansub group Sachi Gumi Distribution, with AnimeNation's John Oppliger recently admitting to getting permission from "Sachi" herself to use their dialog translation as a base, so it has definitively happened once. J-Novel Club, however, has managed to turn some fan translations of light novels into official releases, which I'll be referencing later on in another part. Also, tangentially related, Crunchyroll got its start going legit in 2009 by teaming with (the now defunct) MX Media, a translation company founded by talented fansubbers who teamed up & wanted to use their skills in an official manner. Finally, if you go outside of English anime releases, there is word of at least one German licensor openly working with German fansubbers for releases over in Europe.

However, if you look at video gaming, there are some notable examples within just the past decade. Probably the most well known is when XSEED Games got the rights to publish Ys: Oath in Felghana & Ys I & II Chronicles for the PSP in 2010, followed by Ys Origin for the PC in 2012. In order to help save on localization costs, the company purchased fan translations for all three games that had come out years prior, and even officially announced that they had done so, in a bit of a publicity stunt. All of this was facilitated by Jeff "Deuce" Nussbaum, who did the actual translation itself, & Tom "WyrdWad" Lipschultz, who XSEED had hired & recommended purchasing the fan translations in the first place. The thing, though, is that Nussbaum wasn't the sole person who handled the fan translation project, as there was also Nicolas "NightWolve" Livaditis, the programmer behind the effort who was not included in any of the conversation & received no payment or recognition for his contributions. Livaditis has aired his grievances regarding this whole situation years ago, and it does bring up a point we'll get to later on in this Musing regarding recognition & payments, but this is a perfect example of the intricacies when potentially dealing with using fan translations for an official release.

In more recent examples, there's Hyperkin's RetroN5 from 2014, which was found to use the Genesis Plus GX & SNES 9x Next emulators, both of which are filed officially under non-commercial licenses, which makes their inclusion in Hyperkin's device a violation of both emulators' terms of use. Then, in 2019, Capcom Europe announced the Capcom Home Arcade Stick plug-&-play device, which uses an emulator called Final Burn Alpha, which Capcom did pay a licensing fee to use. The problem is that FB Alpha was also filed under a non-commercial license, and while Capcom did negotiate with one member of the FB Alpha team, that person negotiated without ever letting anyone else on the team know. In other words, this person made money licensing an emulator for commercial use, going against its own terms, & pocketed all for themselves by not letting anyone else on the team know what they did. While Capcom was still allowed to release the stick in Europe, as planned, the end result of this was the FB Alpha team disbanding, putting an end to the emulator's support, and then re-banding with a new project called Final Burn Neo, though obviously the greedy traitor was not invited back.

As we can see, navigating the fan translation scene in order to use one for an official release has all sorts of pratfalls & technicalities, and the larger the group being sourced from, the more likely it can even cause bridges to be burned, possibly forever. So, after all that is taken into consideration...

Part the Third: "How do you even go about doing this?!"
Well, first & foremost... YOU GET INTO CONTACT WITH THE GROUP THAT PRODUCED THE FANSUB! Honestly, this is probably the most damning thing about what RetroCrush did, as no one from Digital Media Rights (the company that runs RetroCrush) got into contact with Johnny English Subs about using the group's work on Pastel Yumi. In effect, RetroCrush/DMR did exactly what fansub groups are looked down upon my some, i.e. illegally using the hard work of others without permission for their own purposes. Now, to be technical, I don't believe the fan translation part of a fansub is, in itself, illegal. For a good comparison, look at video game console emulators. The emulator itself isn't technically illegal, especially if it was created from scratch, because by its very nature it doesn't use any of the actual console's proprietary hardware in it, if there are any. What goes into illegal territory is using said emulator to play video game roms sourced from anything other than your own personal collection. Similarly, anyone can technically create their own translation of an anime, because that in itself is not illegal. What goes into illegal territory is attaching said translation to the footage of the anime it's translating, i.e. creating a fansub, when you don't have the legal ability, i.e. not having the license, to do so, and especially when you make it publicly available for anyone to get a hold of for free. Not just that, but said translation is technically the property of the person who made it, i.e. the translator, or the group/organization that commissioned the person to create the translation, i.e. an anime distributor, the original Japanese licensor (after the license expires), or even a fansub group.

Simply put, for RetroCrush to even start using Johnny English Subs' Pastel Yumi translation at all, they had to contact Johnny English Subs, because that translation is technically theirs. Sure, the legality of it is tenuous since it wasn't for personal use, not to mention if it qualifies as a "derivative work" or not, but the general point still stands. To not do so & still use the translation is, quite simply, theft, just like how Japanese licensors often describe fansubs as doing the same thing with their productions, anime or otherwise.

Anyway, to quote J-Novel Club (& formerly Anime Sols) founder Sam Pinansky, who definitely knows a thing or two about going from fan to pro, once you contact the fansub group & come to an agreement to use the fan translation, you'd then have to contact the Japanese licensor & get approval to even do such a thing. After all, you wouldn't want to risk what happened with RetroCrush & potential tarnish a working relationship with a Japanese licensor by using a fansub behind their backs. While I'm sure this would outright quash any chance of using said fansub for some cases, you could get lucky & get approval from Japan, though I'm sure they'd still have some requirements in order to do so. If nothing else, though, maybe the licensor would be willing to let the fansub be used simply as a base, but otherwise be its own overall translation, like what happened with Risky/Safety. So let's just go with the ideal situation & say that you're given the green light to use that fansub for the official release. Therefore, the fansub group will now be considered an official part of the localization project, so then we have one last question to ask...

"You mean we have to pay EVERYONE for this stuff?!"

Part the Final: "Who the hell should get compensated for this?!?!"
Of course, here might be the reason why RetroCrush tried doing what they did: Money. After all, while getting the license to stream older anime is generally much cheaper than licensing recent anime, it still all adds up, and while RetroCrush does feature ads while viewing so as to make money, it's still aiming for a much smaller niche (within a niche) than a service like Crunchyroll or even Hidive; all I'm saying is that I fully understand wanting to save money on translating from scratch. Still, this does bring up something important, and this is where the whole XSEED/Ys situation I mentioned earlier comes into play. After all, the only thing XSEED wanted was the translation for those games, which was definitively all Jeff Nussbaum's work. Nicolas Livaditis' side of things was all programming-related, which XSEED's own staff would be handling for their release, so on the one hand it makes sense that only Nussbaum would get paid for his translation. However, Livaditis apparently was the person who brought Nussbaum into the fold in the first place with the original fan translation effort, so there is an argument that he should have received some sort of compensation too, or even just recognition in the credits of the final product, which he is not listed in, since he was the impetus for all of this even being possible in the first place.

How does this compare to a fansub? Well, very rarely are fansubs done by a single person (& if they are they tend to not be all that good), hence why fansub groups exist. Sure, you have a translator (maybe even multiple ones), but you also have an editor, a typesetter, a subtitle timer, an encoder, & the project lead who oversees everything (i.e. the producer). If you want to use a fansub for the official release & offer compensation of some sort, then who exactly gets it? Obviously, the translator should, but what about the editor? They looked over the translation & made sure there were as few mistakes as possible (but even then the licensing company should look it over, just in case something was missed), so they likely deserve compensation too. The typesetter & timer are trickier to consider, since the official release will utilize its own typesetting, and since the materials for the official release won't be the same ones as what the fansub used the timing will have to be completely redone. Still, should they just be left without recognition? After all, they did contribute to the fansub you'll be utilizing. And what about the project lead? To ignore them would risk creating another Livaditis situation, so they should definitely receive some sort of recognition. Hell, what if you also decide to use the fansub's song lyrics translation (pending approval from the licensor)? Should you also compensate the people who did the karaoke subs & timing, if any were done, since they also contributed to the final product you'll be utilizing? And what about the person who provided the "raw" used for the fansub? And what if, instead of money, they just want complimentary copies of the release, should there be one, as that's standard procedure for people who work on an anime release; does each member of the group get a copy? As you can see, things quickly start to go crazy.

Now, sure, there's the possibility that the group might simply be honored that they were contacted in the first place, & would be perfectly fine with simply being acknowledged in the credits; this seems to be the case with Sachi Gumi Distribution & Risky/Safety. Ask any professional, though, & they will say that you should get compensated for your work; still, it could happen.

So should "DarkSoul" be the one who gets paid?
He was the most involved with these fansubs, after all.

Not just that, but how does this even work if you decide to utilize a fansub from a group (or even multiple groups) that no longer exists? To use my "#1 Most Wanted Anime License" as an example, Ring ni Kakero 1's English fansub effort went through three different fansub groups (so far): Deph, Shinsen-Subs, & Frenchies-Subs. Deph, which worked on a scant few shows & stopped after 2006, worked on the first 11 episodes of Season 1. Shinsen-Subs, a highly prolific group that stopped after 2012 (& some of which may have even gone legit), assisted Deph with the middle of Season 1, before later doing the last episode of Season 1 & all of Season 2 themselves. Frenchies-Subs, the English division of a French fansub group that stopped after 2012, only fansubbed the first half of Season 3. Since all three groups have long gone defunct, can one even technically utilize all of this work in the first place for an official release? Hell, since the second half of Season 3 & all of Season 4 never saw any sort of English translation, in general, it'd just be easier to translate everything from scratch, since you'll already have to pay a translator for those last nine episodes, anyway.

At least in RetroCrush's case, Sam Pinansky did admit that he'd be willing to get the service into contact with the people who did the Pastel Yumi translation for Anime Sols, which would definitely be the ideal result there.
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So, what have we learned from this whole ordeal with RetroCrush, Johnny English Subs, & Magical Idol Pastel Yumi? First, RetroCrush's basic idea wasn't outright terrible, as while translating from official materials is definitely the ideal method of producing a translation for official release, one can certainly argue that there are situations in which resorting to using fansubs can act as a good replacement or crutch. Second, there is some precedent for anime companies using fansubs to produce official releases, as rare as they have been. Third, & arguably most importantly, if you do decide to go down this path, then learn from RetroCrush's mistake & make sure you get into contact with the fansub group, because while they may not be able to do anything about it from a legal standpoint, it's just good to maintain solid relations with the fandom you are serving. Finally, to continue off of the last point, if you do indeed utilize fansubs for your official release, then you really should compensate the people who made it (or, at the very least, acknowledge their efforts) in some way, & make sure that all involved parties are included in the conversation, because to do so otherwise would be stealing.

Even if they are looked at as "thieves" by some, stealing from a thief is still stealing, and in this case it's not like you're stealing back something physical that was taken from someone else.